On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, ORE(z) Dispenser wrote:
> To quote an interview with Carroll (CI # 17)
> "Sometime in '89 Fra. U.D. formed an alliance with a secretive germanic
> martial arts group and attempted to lead sections of the pact into it.
> The more I heard, the worse it sounded. Eventually I publically accused
> Fra. U.D. of abusing his position and of membership of an ultra right wing
> mind control cult with a seriously nasty agenda. All hell broke loose ...
> The ice magick philosophy appeared to be a grim and paranoid thulean
> atavism which might have had ghastly consequences if Fra. U.D. had spread
> it through the fabric of western esoterics"- Peter J. Carroll
> Pete's position is clearly biased, but I think the fission between RIOT &
> the Pact was a *little* more complicated than a disagreement over
> administrative schemes (which is what the grade structure consists of).
> The Ice Magick intro does make me a bit uneasy about U.D.'s obsession with
> "thulean might"- the Nazi's loved that shit.
> In any case, I don't have enough information to know what went on, I just
> doubt that anyone on this list knows (from an unbiased source) and would
> tell the tale.
Actually, there are Z-list who know the whole story. I was an initiate of EPIC temple in Los Angeles when the MT was Kenneth Stone. The problem with Frater UD was not that his casa had a tremendously difficult agenda; rather that Helmut a (A Highly Advanced Qi Quong expert: i.e. write for the that story) advanced magician was creating a subcult within the IOT.
The IOT was not opposed to innovative magical creations. Nor was the IOT interested at all in dictating to Frater VD concerning his magical goals etc. For sure, there was substantial interest in Helmets abilities. He could after all raise his Chi to a high level of circulation; and hence had developed extraordinary sexual and magical powers. His training program was based upon a strict program of activity often spanning many hours or at least as some opine, days without sleep. Magical exercises combined with a rigorious training period created an accerlerated experience, however stressfull. The Ice Mage was not actually the problem, it was the underpinnings of dictorial control which created a fiasco for the IOT.
Helmet was a strong willed person, but he did create a likely vignette of animosity. As Ian Read and Soro Benevide explained, there stay was not in keeping with magical freedom. Soro Benevide who is probably one of the most gnarly female magicians in the world was attacked by Helmet when she decided enough was enough. As the Soro was walking out: Helmet told her she would have cancer in her uterus and he waved his hand; causing Soro Benevide's nose to bleed.
That incident coupled with an increaseing anarchy which interacted with egregoric tendancies of the IOT "European" contingent it made necessary for the Magi within the IOT to deal with it. Frater VD had no especial desire to upset the applecart; he merely wanted his way independent of the egregoric wave of the IOT. Carroll literally had no choice but to excommunicate VD after a vote of the pact determine there was no other choice.
I can guarantee you that Helmut impact on the IOT was a serious one; and my contacts inform me that there are still hurt feelings.
While I do not want to anyway invalidate Carroll, Helmut, or VD in this situation; I think it very clear in my mind, that when one actually attains power; we must eventually become more responsibile of how we give forth our Word. Helmet could have been an important and essential contributor to the Pact; but when one abuses power; one can not blame others who know better when they withdraw support.