Aetherics Discussion on Damascus MUSH

A terrible case of the blind leading the blind

These are the transcripts of the Aetherics discussion that took place on Damascus MUSH and transcribed to the zee-list and chaos-l*hollyfeld_org my Max on February 28th, 2000. Damascus MUSH has since closed, but was accessible by telnetting to on port 3500.

Kat chats, "i've an interest in what you do with it, but some people don't equate "aetherics" with what they do" Fell has arrived. Max chats, "Pope pete uses it much more effectively -- as do many others." Max chats, "That's the whole point of this discussion." Fell appears... you seem to vaguely recognise him... Max bows before Fell. Kat says, "hi fell" Kat chats, "well, i dunno that he uses it more effectively, but he approaches it in a somewhat different manner" CharredRose chats, "Well, you've sort of caught my interest. I'll try to be here." Max chats, "Well let me elaborate... " CharredRose chats, "Be right there." Fell says, "BRB" Fell has left. CharredRose has arrived. CharredRose says, "Ahoy thar." CharredRose bows Max says, "Well, like I was saying, qi gong masters do stuff that's unheard of in modern occultism." Kat has a friend staying with her who uses qi a lot in his martial arts. Max says, "Telekinesis (along the order of Star Wars) telepathy (from psychics), flying (Pope Pete's aetherics), walking to the the store five miles away in fifteen minutes (both Fotamecus and yogis ;)" CharredRose says, "I can say that I haven't met anyone (offline) who has shown any real experience with using qi in any conscious way." Max says, "I've only met one person who has." Max says, "He was incredible." Max says, "He stuck to the ceiling." Max says, "He's only eighteen." CharredRose says, "Stuck to the ceiling?" Max says, "Yep... we were playing hide and seek with some other guys... only they didn't know it yet ;) and he found the perfect hiding spot -- the ceiling." CharredRose says, "That's interesting." Kat says, "go on... that rather beats the telepathy, empathy, little odds and sods of manipulation I've managed" CharredRose nods in agreement with kat Max says, "That's what I'm saying -- why hasn't modern occultism picked up on this sort of stuff?" Kat says, "it hasn't, has it?" Kat says, "i mean, I've been working on all this for a couple of years now" Max says, "Why don't mages go around *actually* throwing lightning-bolts from their fingertips." Fell has arrived. Max says, "Gerhard Helmut did. Ice magick might've been morally reprehensible, but the associations with qi might've been worth something." Kat says, "do you have anything more on Ice Magick than the usual?" CharredRose says, "Well, I don't do anything like that simply because I seem to have programmed my mind so that I can only access that sort of thing when I -need- it. But I'mw orking on that." Max says, "I've got nothing on ice magick but what I've read in the Book of Zee." Kat says, "Azrhm's due on" Max says, "But I've got some info on qi... bloody little, but some." Max says, "(not in electronic format)" Fell says, "All these energy systems...." Max says, "I am convinced that belief and samadhi are key to these practices... the energy is in the mind, but as a sigil is a symbol of a desire, imagining the qi is a symbol of affecting reality." Kat says, "has anyone else noticed the tendancy of electronic equipment to go down in high magickal charges" Fell says, "When u say Aetherics, Max, are you refering to the mechanism, the "stuff" that transmits magickal force/makes it happen, or something else?" Max says, "I've noticed stuff falling off of platforms. I've noticed my dog always leaves the room. I've noticed two lightbulbs blowing simultaneously during a particularly bad experience with a demon." Fell says, "Kat: Definately. U remember my friend Bizkit? He can't go near kettles, hi-fis, etc. He can only ever log on for a few minutes before any machine he's using dies" Max says, "Aether refers to the underlying energy of the universe. Synonimous with Chi or Kundalini, or vibes, or whatever you want to call it." Max says, "Wow." CharredRose says, "I know I'm a little lagged, but I agree, belief is the key to any practice, this one included." Fell says, "So is our purpose here to quantize this or just explore different paradigms? I mean, quantizing it "absolutely" totally defeats being a Choate for me." Max says, "I plan on studying these things in depth later on, but I have little idea as to where to begin. Most books on qi are only in reference to healing and the likes. No info on knocking people over at 100 yards." CharredRose nods... Max says, "No... I don't believe it is fruitful at all to quantize aetherics." Fell says, "I'd say you'd need a teacher for the more full-on stuff." Max says, "So would I, but that's not very likely going to happen for a while." CharredRose says, "I bought a book that doesn't have anything on "knocking others over" or anything, but it has proved rather useful. Fell: I have to disagree with you that you would need a teacher for the 'full-on' stuff. I believe that anything is possible if you believe you can do it." Fell says, "So we're just exploring different methods of energy/matrix/Dark Matter/whatever manipulation?" Max says, "I plan on starting off the way I started off at psychic phenomenon -- experimenting with what little knowledge I've got." Kat has disconnected. Fell says, "Fair enough Rose, I agree, but in the context of a "trad" qi approach/paradigm, is the use of a mentor not part of the philosophy?" Max says, "Char: Can you give me a title/author/isbn?" CharredRose says, "Yes, Max, just one second. And Fell: Trad? Traditional?" Max says, "We're exploring everything we can... we don't even know what we're exploring. We're just discussing the topic of aetherics from any/every angle we can." Fell has reconnected. Fell says, "Sorry, link died." Max says, "The philosophy is of no relevance -- the practice is all that counts. I often practice wiccan spells. Doesn't mean I worship their gods, or mention their names during the associated chants/prayers." Fell says, "Fair point." Max says, "Have you had any experience with qi?" CharredRose says, "Max: Title: "Eight Simple Qigong exercises for Health", author: Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming, ISBN: 1-886969-52-3" Max says, "Danke." CharredRose nods CharredRose says, "No problem" Fell says, "I liked what you said in the announcement, about how when constructing a paradigm to work in, many chaotes tend to neglect the mechanism they're supposing "makes it happen". It's true the system doesn't have to be "true" or even possible, but I think internal consistency is a must. That's what my Chaos Onions thing's about." Max says, "I think I saw that one at Borders the other night when I was looking at their matial arts/qi section." Fell says, "No personal experience with qi, but that sort of low-level (ie direct) energy work is much of a muchness isn't it?" Azrhm has arrived. Max says, "You never did send that to me. Would you care to explain it?" Max says, "Welcome Azrhm. You haven't missed a whole lot." Fell says, "Sure! Let me just find my diagram..." CharredRose says, "It's a set of 16 exercises that helps you concentrate on qi movement." CharredRose says, "Hi, Azrhm" Azrhm says, "Hello, merry meet, 93ze, all o' that crap ;-)" Fell says, "Hey dude :) Max says, "Char: Have you read much of that book?" Fell says, "OK I'm going to do a file send: Get ready to copy it all and paste it into a text window, cool?" CharredRose says, "All of it, once. Part of it twice." Max says, "Okay." Dragon chats, "hullo" Max says, "Char: Would you mind explaining some of the fundamentals of qi manipulation for dissemination?" CharredRose chats, "Hi, dragon" Max chats, "Hello, Dragon. We're in the Meeting Place off of the Central Courtyard now." Dragon chats, "okay ..." CharredRose says, "Max: I missed that. say again?" Max says, "Char: Would you mind explaining some of the fundamentals of qi manipulation for dissemination?" Max says, "Just some of the basic beliefs/paradigms/philosophies/practices?" Dragon steps through the entranceway.Dragon steps through the entranceway. Dragon has arrived. Max says, "Welcome, Dragon." Dragon says, "thankee" Fell ---------------- Fell //--- ---\ Fell /// 3 \ Fell /// \ Fell // \ Fell / ----------- Fell | /// \ | Fell | // 2 \ | Fell | / | Fell | | /----- | /| | Fell | | // \ | | | Fell +----------+ | 1 | +-----|-----+ Fell | | \ // | | | Fell | | -----/ | |/ | Fell | / | Fell | \ // / Fell \ \ /// / Fell \ ----------- / Fell \ / Fell \ 4 / Fell \--- ---/// Fell Max says, "We got started just a few minutes ago." Max says, "WOW!" Dragon is typically late Fell says, "OK that's not great but good enuff..." Max says, "It's alright, Dragon. You haven't missed much." Fell says, "Basically we have three circles, one inside the other, with the outer one with two lines across, yeah?" CharredRose says, "Well, I don't know much about the philosophies and such of qi manipulation. I sort of keep what I like from books/people and drop the rest." Max says, "Alright." Fell says, "There's also an arrow, double-ended, connecting the two halves of the outer." Fell says, "Now what it is a belief map; it demonstrates layering of beliefs and is useful in creating new paradigms, as well as learning belief manipulation to adapt new paradigms." Fell says, "Ok so far?" Max says, "Alright... go on." CharredRose says, "Shoot. brb." Fell says, "So anyway... you see the center circle, with the 1 in it? This represents our core belief, that everything else is built upon." Fell says, "We take as this central belief, "Conciousness is real, since its effects are tangible."" Azrhm has reconnected. Azrhm says, "To coin a phrase, 'Whoops.'" Max says, "=P W/b Azrhm." Fell says, "What I'm saying is that everything we do, in "normal" life or in magick, has this belief as a given at a base level." Fell says, "wb az" Azrhm says, "wb?"" Dragon says, "hullo Azrhm" Azrhm says, "aah, welcome back!" Fell says, "Now, moving to the next layer out layers a further belief on top of that." Fell says, "That belief is hard to put into words, but deals with the acceptance of "some form of matrix, interconnecting all nodes within it". Note that the FORM of the matrix is totally arbitrary at this stage." Fell says, "Ie, we could be talking about a Christian monodeity, or a system of Qaballah, or an information matrix." Fell says, "The point is merely that some form of network exists." Fell says, "I have not yet found any paradigm that does not conform to this model so far..." Fell says, "The outer layer, however, is a little different." Fell says, "It has two high-level belief modes, both built on top of what I have already said." Fell says, "One of these is our normal, everyday, "standby" mode; not thinking too much about the universe, just watching TV or doing our work." Fell says, "This mode requires no complex belief system or too much thinking; in short, it's getting some peace." Fell says, "But the other mode is the one we enter when we are conducting any form of magick." Fell says, "Because it's built upon the other two layers as well, they are still valid." Fell says, "And so here we are quantizing this matrix so it makes sense to us in some form, and manipulating it." Fell says, "Or even merely accessing it." Fell says, "But what the onion demonstrates is" Fell says, "the small amount of difference between given belief systems; in order to effectively switch between them we don't have to rebuild our very existence from the" Fell says, "ground up, merely adjust our definition of the matrix we're dealing with - step from one side of the outer layer to the other." Max says, "I see." Fell says, "The co-existence of the two (or indeed, 3, 4, n) modes of outer belief is important too" Fell says, "because it is our safety valve and stops us from going insane when the paradigm we're working in suddenly fucks up" Dragon says, "interesting." Fell says, "it keeps us sane." Fell says, "It seems so obvious that it at first strikes one as trivial" Fell says, "But keep the diagram, and you'll think about it. It IS simple, but it" Fell says, "is also the key to paradigm switching, and what most chaotes would describe as chaos magick." Fell says, "Fin :)" CharredRose says, "Hrm..." Max says, "That's a very good explanation... I hadn't heard that one before. I've noticed that people attempt to rationalize their actions/beliefs through others which seem contradictory. So you're saying it's just jumping from one side of the "peel" to the other?" Dragon says, "I've seen the onion model used before, but a little differently. Nema talks of it in her book, Ma'at Magick." Fell says, "Max: Absolutely. And thanks!" Fell says, "Nema?" Max says, "VERY interesting..." Dragon says, "Yes, Nema. She used to be on the zee-list, she's written an excellent book on self-initiation, she's about to publish another book." Max says, "Anyhow... back on the topic of aetherics, Char, are you with us again?" Fell says, "Ah! I'd like to see other examples of people using onions :) Any isbns?" Dragon says, "Fell: yes, let me grab my copy of Ma'at Magick." Fell says, "Thanx" CharredRose says, "Yeah, sort of, Max." Dragon says, "Ma'at Magick: A Guide to Self-Initiation, by Nema. pub. Weiser. ISBN 0877288275" Max says, "Would you like to share some of what you've learned about qi with us? Maybe explain the basic manipulation principles/techniques. i.e. how to move qi through the body? Fell says, "Thanks Dragon, duely noted." CharredRose says, "All right, let me think for a second on how to put this." CharredRose says, "Well, basically, I just take qi, whether from inside myself, or from some external source, and use it. Whether that means to physically shape it into something (only happened visibly once) or to send it toward some goal or desire. I don't know if that even half answers your question, max, but it's a start, I guess." Max says, "Okay.. how do you use it? How do you move it about and cause it to ellicit results?" CharredRose says, "Well, all my magic that I do is done by saying "I want this to be like this" and it happens. I sort of visualize it as energy (various ways for various results) and tell it where to go and what to do what it gets there. Or, when I'm bored, I just sit and shape balls of it with my hands." Dragon says, "sometimes energy maniputlation is just plain fun" Fell says, "But what makes this "qi", Char? I'm just having problems seeing where qi differs from another form of energy work." CharredRose says, "I don't really consider them to be different things, Fell, energy and qi. Energy comes from everything, qi comes from everything. Both are used to accomplish goals. What do you think the difference is?" Azrhm says, "And this 'matrix', it connects all the layers of the onion?" Fell says, "No Az, it refers to the world around us, and the way the things within it interact. That layer just acknowledges that such a system exits." Fell says, "Exists even." Fell says, "Char, I don't; I was just wondering if there was a semantic difference I was missing." Fell says, "I just read back what I said; I didn't mean to undermine energy work in any way. Its value cannot be overstated." CharredRose says, "I use them both the same way, if there is a difference." Fell says, "It is, perhaps, the purest magick." Max says, "Char: Fair enough. Can you give us an example of using qi to do something?" Max says, "Incidentally... there's a copy of AETHERICS on the floor which is readable." CharredRose says, "Max: Hrm, what sort of example are you looking for? Telekinesis type of results, or... hrm... intangibles?" CharredRose says, "(btw, I'm not very used to discussing my beliefs and such with others, so I'm not sure how to word some things)" Max says, "Something with noticable results, preferably. For example, I used aetherics for healing purposes yesterday after cutting myself for blood for a ritual. The wound already looks two weeks old, and it looks like there won't be a scar. (It was three parallel cuts about an inch long and spaced to make a quarter-inch wide wound.)" CharredRose nods... All right. Max says, "Don't worry about it, Rose. We'll understand what you mean." CharredRose says, "I guess that the only time recently that I've used it for anything noticable enough to stick in memory was one time I was out walking and picked up a big rock. Noticed there was a snake under it and dropped it back (instinct, sorry snaky). Then I wondered if I had hurt or killed it, but I wouldn't get close enough to lift the rock <more>" I wouldn't get close enough to lift the rock <more>" CharredRose says, "So I just sort of stood a little bit back and... rocked it until it rolled off. *shrug* it rolled off. *shrug*" Dragon says, "just reading the copy of aetherics, here, and the part about directing the force beyond the hands sounds very much like reiki (as much as that seems to be a 'newage' topic anymore)" Max says, "NICE." Max says, "That was my next question... Kat told me you're very knowledgable about Reiki. Care to share?" Fell says, "I understand yr difficulty Char. It's a sign of the raw baseness of such stuff that it _is_ so difficult to word it." Fell says, "Reiki? Please tell!" Dragon says, "Kat flatters me. I am a reiki practicioner and teacher, yes." CharredRose nods to Fell... Thanks. :) Fell says, "I've just started" CharredRose says, "Oh? I've heard a lot about it, but don't know much about it. Tell tell tell! :)" Dragon says, "but essentially, reiki is the channeling of chi through your body, and directing it, usually to do healing work" Max says, "By the way, Rose, was the rock large/heavy, and how long did it take you to rock it off the snake? (And was the snake ok? =P)" Fell says, "Do you see a seperating factor between the actual _energy_ Reiki and other energy works use, Dragon, or is the distinction more in the _way_ it is used?" CharredRose says, "It was about 10lbs, it took me about a minute and a half to two minutes. And yeah, the snake was fine. Slithered up to me, looked, and left." Max says, "Incredible." Dragon says, "I'm not completely sure, fell. old-school reiki masters will tell you that you have to receive reiki attunements to be able to channel reiki. but I've met people who, for all intents and purposes, have been practicing reiki for years and just never known about reiki or called their work by that name" Max says, "Do you do that sort of stuff very often? Did you borrow that only from qi gong, or were there other influences?" Fell says, "I think that's how many such disciplines come about; people working in seperate but in parallel." CharredRose says, "Well, I just do stuff like that when I need to. And no, it wasn't qi gong. It was dragonball z *grins, blushes*" Dragon says, "yes. my own feelings are that reiki is just another system of manipulating energy, and as such, it's very similar to other energy manipulatuions" Max chuckles. Max says, "Kewlness! I got started from Star Wars, myself. =)" Fell nods in agreement. Dragon says, "indeed. use the force, chaote." Fell says, "The Force is a very workable paradigm. Internally consistant, low-level and intuitive." Max says, "That I did! Many a playing-card will attest to that, as well." Dragon says, "one complaint that I've heard before from some energy healers is that they end up using their own energy to do healing, and wind up very drained afterwards" CharredRose smiles... Wow, I'm glad I'm not just completely weird, then ;) Dragon says, "and that, i think, is one of the reasons why reiki is so popular, because it teaches you how to channel 'the force' and not your own energies" Fell says, "Yes, my friend complains of this with many energy works. I wonder why this could be?" Dragon says, "some people have very little int he way of personal shielding. some of them simply don't know how or haven't tried to tap into anything outside of themselves." Max says, "I think it may be that they engineeer these "drainings" from their fear of it occurring, or belief that it could." Fell says, "I mean, if the paradigm is doing that to you, why not add a clause to stop it? IF the practitioner in question is indeed aware that it is them setting the rules, that is." Dragon says, "Max, that's a very likely possibility, as well." CharredRose nods.. I think I agree, Max. Fell says, "That's very valid, Max." Dragon says, "Some people need to feel as though they're sacrificing something for their work." Max says, "So could you explain your angle on energy manipulation to us, Dragon? How to do it? Why it works?" Dragon says, "Hrm, how to condense it all succinctly ..." Kat has connected. Dragon says, "as for how to do it, with reiki specifically it's quite simple. it's little more than a matter of thinking "okay, let's do it!" and it goes. there are ways to make it more or less efficient, but basically all you have to do is will it on or off and there you have it." Kat says, "just popping in to say high :)" Fell says, "wb kat" Fell says, "Can u stay for a while?" CharredRose says, "'Allo, Kat" Dragon says, "I think energy manipulation has many possible uses and methods, and I'm still exploring them all. Could take me a while. :)" Dragon says, "At Starwood this year, there evolved an amusing little past-time that people came to call 'psychic twister'" Kat says, "I can stay a little" Fell says, "Good :)" Max is listening. Max says, "W/b Kat." Dragon says, "Hi Kat :)" Dragon says, "Oh, well, psychic twister came about sort of spontaneously, and didn't seem to have any purpose other than experimentation and fun." Dragon says, "The first one involved myself, Duirwyrd, Davis, Loki, and Jody" Dragon says, "we all started by holding hands palms facing to each other in a circle, not actually touching, usually, and just pushing or pulling the energy back and forth around and around" Dragon says, "and then some wag - erm, I mean my husband ;) - stuck a foot up in the air to make another 'link' with someone else's foot" Max snickers. Dragon says, "and so we all had hands as well as feet joined, and the energy just kept flowing. we all got quite high off of it" CharredRose says, "Interesting..." Fell says, "Cool!" Max says, "Kewl." Dragon says, "and every passing night brought more and more people to our campsite to participate in 'psychic twister'" Max usually feels pretty excited after a successful session of pyschic practice. (but that could just be the thrill of success) Dragon says, "well, it also helped that we'd all consumed rather too much absinthe, as well :)" Max chuckles. Fell says, "No such discussion would be complete without some form of impromptu energy work right here, right now; I know we haven't heard Max's thoughts and approaches yet but shall we try a little something while Kat can join us?" Max says, "Alright." Fell realises he didn't have an idea ready Fell says, "Anybody?!" Max says, "How 'bout this: we choose a reciever" Max says, "and everyone else sends an agreed-upon fruit/letter/color/whatever" Dragon says, "heh, this could be fun" Fell says, "Without the receiver being told it?" Max says, "Tell them nothing more than the category it will come from" Fell says, "Yeah, cool!" Fell says, "Who'd like to be the receiver first?" Max says, "i.e. its a fruit" Max says, "I will -- I've had experience." Fell says, "OK! I'll page a suggestion around." Dragon says, "so who picks the fruit? :)" Kat says, "okay" Fell says, "Much better." Max says, "You have to really "feel" the subject -- i.e. if it's a fruit, you have to smell it taste it, enjoy the texture think of the image, hear the name." Max says, "Send all that at once." Max says, "Page me when you've selected and I'll return to this room." Fell says, "OK, it's a fruit - now leave so I can tell 'em!" Max steps out of the building. Fell pages: Finished arguing :) Come back! Kat chats, "max, come in" Dragon smiles Max says, "Fruit?" Fell says, "OK peeps are we ready?" Fell says, "Fruit." Max says, "K." Max says, "Tell me when." Fell says, "Syncing....." Fell says, "NOW" Fell says, "Oh, have a link symbol if u need it:" Max says, "No..." Fell says, "Fair nuff" Max says, "This is high magick sort of stuff. Or maybe orange but not sorcery." Fell says, "Point." Fell says, "Still going." Kat says, "getting anything, Max?" Fell says, "I've finished mine :)" Fell says, "Had a real one :)" CharredRose was thinking of doing the same, Fell :) Dragon says, "my imaginary one tastes pretty damn good :)" CharredRose grins at Dragon Max says, "I kinda got banana ..." Max says, "Mixed up with grapes" Max says, "Keep going though." Dragon says, "hee hee" Fell says, "Keep going....." Fell says, "(Although a process of elimnation is in danger of starting!)" Azrhm says, "yeah, name all the fruits you can think of ;-)" Max shakes his head... they chose something from Guam. Max says, "Nectarines" Dragon grins Kat grins widely Max says, "small light things?" Azrhm says, "IMHO, fruit is a bit of an ambiguous subject. Everyone likes different varieties, textures ripeness and that kinda thing. There are also a lot of senses (touch/taste/smell/sight) involved." Max says, "Right." Max says, "That's what makes it easy." Fell says, "Well whatever the fruit actually was, he certainly has a link with Kat ;)" Max says, "An abstract concept like a letter without many attributes is difficult." Dragon much prefers nectarines, anyway. no fuzz. ;) Fell says, "PEACHES." Kat grins Max says, "Doh!" CharredRose giggles Kat says, "what this says for my concentration skills..." Fell laughs Max says, "I was going to say peaches, but thought of nectarines since they seemed smaller. =P" Fell says, "Another little game, anyone?" Kat says, "nectarines are usually larger" Kat says, "okay, try me" Dragon says, "kat complained about apricots, too" Azrhm says, "Maybe we should do a few tests on both 'complex' and 'simples'?" Fell says, "More of a link-up thing?" Max slaps himself. Max says, "Then I was thinking of peaches!" Kat says, "so now what?" Max says, "I already have, Az. I can't name a letter for the life of me." Max points to Fell. Fell says, "Well, we could do a new age hand-holdy pretty fluffy clouds little bunny wabbits link-up "hey wow, maaaan" sorta thing" Max says, "How 'bout a playing card? Color, suit, number." Azrhm says, "Yeah, I'm just juggling in my head about what would be better, something involving all senses or just one. Depends on the person I suppose, but reflecting I reckon all senses." Fell says, "Yeah card's good - different categories of judgment, so at least ya can get it half-right :)" Azrhm says, "A playing card seems nice and abstract actually, let's give it a whirl." Dragon says, "we had to argue about which fruit to send :)" Max says, "Okay... your turn Fell." Fell says, "OK, I'll try." Fell says, "See ya!" Fell has left. CharredRose waves Kat says, "ace of spades?" Azrhm says, "2 hearts?" Max says, "wait... I'm shuffling." CharredRose says, "10 of Clubs" Azrhm says, "I knew someone would say ace of spades... and knew it would be kat" Max says, "2 of spades" Kat says, "so i like motorhead... so shoot me" Max says, "lol... joker. >=)" CharredRose says, "Heh." Dragon says, "2 of spades is good" Max says, "2 of spades it is." Kat says, "okay" CharredRose says, "Two of spades. Rock on." Kat says, "he's coming" Azrhm says, "Hey, I went to staffordshire uni for a year or so, they have Lemmy's handprints outside the main building!" Fell steps through the entranceway. Fell has arrived. Fell says, "Hit me" CharredRose hits fell CharredRose says, "Oh..." Azrhm says, "what a great hall of learning ... not ;-)" Fell says, "I bet you were all arguing in here :)" Kat says, "if only i had a deck of cards...#" Dragon says, "everybody ready?" Max says, "Okay... I'm sending." Fell says, "I take it you're sending? Oh yeah, you're sending..." Kat says, "sending...." Fell says, "It's a jack" Fell says, "Clubs or spades" Fell says, "Dont tell me" Fell says, "Well what I'm seeing is like, red clubs..." Fell says, "Which is odd" Max gets that a lot. =) Fell says, "So...." Fell says, "I'm with clubs. Jack thereof." Kat says, "nope" Fell says, "Tell me" Dragon says, "at least he got the color right :)" Max says, "Two of spades." Kat says, "2 of spade" Fell says, "Oh well :)" Fell says, "I'm crap at poker too" Max says, "Anyone for another round?" Max chuckles. CharredRose grins at Fell Kat says, "why not" Fell says, "Sure" Kat has houseguests... you people are distracting Dragon says, "i'd like to hear what people do, exactly, when they send" Max says, "You just volunteered, Kat. =)" CharredRose says, "Sure" Dragon says, "techniques and whatnot" Kat says, "oh good" Kat says, "shall i leave?" Max says, "Yeah, go ahead." Kat has left. Azrhm says, "I use the monitor as a kind of focus." Max says, "Technique is simple.... concentrate on all aspects of it... dwell on it in concise, clear symbolism." Fell says, "Hmmm... I tried to fell the TAZ we have, then project my fruit into that" CharredRose says, "Same here, Az. I just look at the person's name and say "Hey, it's such-n-such"" Dragon says, "I'm experimenting, using the reiki distance-sending symbol as a means of opening a channel" Azrhm says, "Visualise the image (sight, sound, concept etc) move it on through the monitor" Fell says, "The modem's better for me." Max says, "How do you do that, Dragon?" Azrhm says, "Mine's internal <g>" Max says, "Alright... let's go for simple. A dog?" CharredRose nods Fell says, "Dog :)" Kat chats, "quit arguing and make up your minds" Azrhm says, "What kind of dog?" Max says, "Dog it is." Dragon says, "well, there are various symbols you learn in reiki, the one for distance sending is the hon-sha-ze-sho-nen. I draw it in the air with my palm, and also in my mind, and imagine it shooting off to the person at the other end." Fell says, "Is this a nutty log dog?" Azrhm says, "LOL" Max says, "Good point... a scottie." Fell says, "With a tartan bow" Max says, "Black little scottie doggie." Max says, "That smells like wet fur. ;)" Fell says, "brb must..... find..... museli....." Azrhm says, "With a nice tartan coat" Azrhm says, "Oops, getting carried away there." Max says, "Let us know when you're back, Char." Kat chats, "i'm getting paranoid here... what are you cooking up for me?" Dragon has disconnected. Max says, "We're losing people fast. =(" Fell says, "Back! Why'd dragon disconnect?" CharredRose says, "Sorry, I'll be back in a few" Azrhm looks at watch Max says, "Er..." Max says, "Should we start without her and Char?" Fell says, "In the meantime, I'll get her back, and Max can talk about his approaches?" Max says, "Okay." Fell has left. Fell has arrived. Kat has arrived. Max says, "Alright..." Fell says, "Waiting for Rose." Max says, "My techniques..." Fell says, "Nobody mention the THING!" Kat says, "what ARE you going to do to me" Max cackles maniacally! Kat says, "okay if my beloved bitten helps me out here?" Fell says, "But of course" Fell says, "Someone send me some astral nicotine, I'm outta baccy." Kat says, "when i get the joint back, i'll send you some astral dope" Fell says, "Ohhhh yes" Fell says, "I'll give u my astral icq" Kat says, "that sounds almost obscene" Fell says, "<---VV" Fell says, "Just DCC it down there :)" Fell says, "Max? You have the floor" Kat says, "perhaps after this, I should attempt to spread stoned vibes to all and sundry" Max says, "Alright... er... well I started off with magick. One day I was bored so I looked into qi gong. That came to no avail, since everyone wants money for their info. (Wankers!) So I went looking about, and then, hey, whaddya know? Star Wars: Episode 1 is coming out next month! Woohoo! So I go looking for info on star wars, and I think, "Now SOME idiot's bound to have made a religion out of the force." Sure enough... I found the Jedi Academy. So I printed up some files about "Feeling" the force."Max says, " Yes, I'm a nut." Max says, "So I go ahead and try some of it one day at school -- enter "Card Tricks"." Fell says, "Coooool" Max says, "I'll spare you guys the 4-page synopsis but what happens is I'm able to divine the suits of cards without looking at them." CharredRose glances at the screen... Whoa, weird... Max says, "So after that I picked up a book entitled "Develop your PSYCHIC SKILLS" by Enid Hoffman. Can't stand her unfounded indoctrinated theories, but wound up doing some more fantastic things. And of course, there was Liber Null." Max says, "I don't know what you mean by that Kat?" DeusExMachina pages: "Hello there, everyone." Max says, "My techniques are VERY lengthy in theory for the most basic of tasks. Shall I try to summarize shortly?" Kat chats, "come in, DEM they're plotting my fate" Fell says, "Definately" DeusExMachina has arrived. Max says, "Okay... well here's how it goes:" Fell says, "Wotcha dem :)" DeusExMachina waves to everyone. Azrhm says, "Hey DEM" Max says, "Clear the mind. The analytical component of the mind is what hinders success. You have to "feel" all the results. Blank your mind, hold the card, keep the desire in mind. It'll just come to you -- you'll just sort of notice something that's always been there, but you've always overlooked -- like the smell of air." Azrhm has reconnected. Azrhm says, "Doublepluswhoops." Max says, "Hello, Deus. Welcome back. =)" DeusExMachina says, "Thanks! Sorry if I'm interrupting the discussion-in-progress..." DeusExMachina grins. DeusExMachina says, ""...I'll just have a seat and try to get up to speed."" Max says, "That's more or less how I elicit results. Then there's aetherics, in whic I tend to use Peter Carroll's technique of visualizing the energy rising from the abdomen to the point where you need it, since that seems to work best." CharredRose waves... Hi dem Max says, "Liber Prestidigitation is in the other room... I'll go get it." [Snipped arduous journey to the library to retrieve item.] ct1 I'll be the first to admit that I don't know how magick works. I suspect it to be a function of belief, but it would be impossible to attribute magick only to belief, as there are infinitely more possibilities. Other elements of magick seem to be obsession, and samadhi, (gnosis, or no-mind) but it also impossible to determine that they do not work simply a result of my belief! But I have already written on the subject of belief and consensus reality and that is not my purpose here. My purpose here is to relate the simple elements which I use to elicit results in the form of what seems to be high magick. For all I know these are merely orange workings (or less) but certainty here is subjective, if not impossible. First, a short story: (Type ct2 to continue.) ct2 One day I was feeling as if I could conquer the world, but, being in the middle of nowhere as it were, I hadn't much to conquer. I did, however, have a deck of cards with me. Having recently read a paragraph-long document roughly pertaining to "feeling" the "vibes" of matter, I decided to see if I could try a rather simple test which sprang to mind. I would attempt to "feel" the suit of cards from the deck I had with me. I shuffled it, held it face-down in my palm, and put my thumb on the top card. "Spades.", I thought. Turning the card over, I found it marked with spades. I smiled and tried again. "Hearts." Sure enough, the card was from the hearts suit. Exhilerated, I continued in this manner until I had guessed at the suits of ten playing cards, getting seven correct. (Type ct3 to continue.) ct3 Probability dictates I would get 2.5 correct by guessing at random. I continued practicing the trick for a couple of days until I finally called ten out of ten correctly. The probability of doing that by chance is approximately 0.000000953674316406 (one in 1,048,576) As far as I am concerned that is undeniable proof of not only the existance of magick, but of my ability to wield it. (Type ct4 to continue.) ct4 The technique is simple, but difficult in execution. I started by clearing my mind -- entering samadhi/gnosis/no-mind whilst holding the card whose suit I was divining. I've noticed that my mind is without conscious thought in this state, but not without thought -- perception remains, along with subconscious thought which is finally in a quiet-enough mind to be "heard". Then I attempt to percieve the card -- not through sight, indeed I often look away, but through the mind. Sometimes this involves a visualisation, but more often it is an undescribable "openness" to feeling and sensation. I get the "feeling" of a suit before long, and am able to accurately (most of the time) call it correctly. That's the basic idea, but it gets very tricky. (Type ct5 to continue.) ct5 I often find myself exhausted by the strain of telling the difference between the feeling and the fancy of a thing. For very often, one will mistake a preconception, or some part of imagination for the perception one is trying to attain via samadhi, and will call that instead of the suit of the card. It is important to, upon thinking what suit a card might be, to ignore that and think of which suit the card IS. Somewhere within oneself, I have noticed, there is some mechanism which KNOWS the true nature of not only the card, but everything. I've noticed myself turning a card over after having called "spades" only to think before looking at the card, at the most subtle level, "that's wrong", and find the card to be hearts It is also this mechanism which tells you the suit of the card. (Type ct6 to continue.) ct6 I had forgotten, after a lapse of practice, the precise technique of these "card tricks" and had to teach myself all over again. Sometimes the hardest lessons to grasp are the ones you've already learned. It took some time, but I've finally managed once more to master this bit of magick, and along the way I've made notes. I present to you the notes which helped me relearn this art of divination, taken from my magickal diary: (Type ct7 to continue.) ct7 < In the margin, written sideways is the following: 7/20/99 (?) > Commentary: There's a difference between the feel and the fancy of a thing. It is at times very difficult to tell the difference. There would've been one or two more right had I not went on a false whim. Oh well. (Type ct8 to continue.) ct8 7/23/99 - Samadhi is definitely involved. The most important part of "card tricks" is emptying one's mind. I think that nothing was left but perception -- true perception of reality. I tried to clear my mind absorbing - that is, percieving - only the suit of the card. It seems to work, but is physically demanding from a mental angle. Of course, as always, I could be wrong. (Type ct9 to continue.) ct9 7/24/99 - It oftentimes helps achieving samadhi to pay attention to one's surroundings - to not merely "see" but to "look"; to ########feel and smell and taste and hear one's surroundings unlike the normal act of attention to these things we pay. It has been written "to go about a place as if never having #### been there before," and this is the manner in which one ought to go about. For our own sake. (Type ct10 to continue.) ct10 7/26/99 - There is ###### between the card and Samadhi a single answer, which, somewhere within yourself, you know and which is furthermore clear -- so much so that you take it for granted to the point where you do not notice it. Somewhere within yourself the answer lies. Samadhi serves only to quiet your mind long enough to #notice it. (Type ct11 to continue.) ct11 7/28/99 - # Upon flipping a card over, something in the back of your mind tells you if you# are correct or not. It is this same mechanism which tells you the suit of the card. Listen to it. (Type ct12 to continue.) ct12 7/31/99 - It is _very_ important that one holds no ######### preconceptions about the results of the divination. One ought not have _any_ notions in one's mind of what they might be, and one ought not mistake feelings, ideas, symbols, etc. born of one's own mind for the results of the divination. (Type ct13 to continue.) ct13 Of course cards are only used for practice and as an example. I've applied this method to telepathy, future-prediction, and other aspects of divination. Similar techniques can also be used for "projective magick" or enchantment. I've not yet explored this well enough to feel qualified to write on it, but you can be sure that when I have explored it further, another essay will be in order. What I have done, however, includes telekinesis, and affecting probability. (Of both dice and random electronic bitstreams.) Experiment -- see what can be done with these methods -- and let me know the results. I'd be happy to hear of any successes. (Type ct14 to continue.) ct14 -Samadhi/gnosis is very tricky, but it seems that not trying too hard usually helps. Clearing the mind should be practiced when you've got a few minutes with nothing to do. (Waiting for a friend at the bar. Riding in the passenger seat of a car. Ignoring the commercials until your favorite show comes back on. Etc.) -The less you pay attention, the better you'll do. (Has something to do with lust of results, no doubt.) -Relax -- getting frustrated actually reduced my results to far below probability at one point, until a couple of friends helped me out with this advice. -Patience -- At first it usually took me anywhere from several seconds to 30 minutes (!!) to divine a single card. There are times even now when I spend 15 minutes trrying to eliminate a preconception. (A real bugger when your preconception coincides with the suit of the card!) (Type ct15 to continue.) ct15 -Keep in mind that there is some part of you which _knows_ the answer -- when you're right, you will know it. -Practice -- practice makes perfect! Try to get a couple dozen cards in each day. It might take a while at first, but after an hour of practice every day for the better part of a week, you'll be able to divine a card's suit within several seconds on average. There is no substitute for experience, and all it requires is a small bit of perseverance. Io Ars Magicka, -Max -- Magickal code: MCH/O S W@ N++ PEC/XX++ Dr A C$@+++>+++++ G>++ Q(+) 666 Y>++++ (Fin.) Kat says, "i'll also go get something relevant" Kat has left. Max says, "In addition, there's the most important missing entry from Liber Prestidigitation:" Kat has arrived. Kat says, "ARE you going to do somethiing to me here, or just leave me in suspence, BTW?" Max says, ""I don't believe that there is much more to add. Get rid of the logical, analytical part of the mind, and simply "feel". And remember -- there is no substitute for experience."" Max says, "Suspense." Fell says, "Thanks, Max." Kat says, "hmph" DeusExMachina raises and eyebrow at Kat.... and Max. Fell says, "Let's do it: I" Max says, "Okay... Kat." Fell says, "shall page DEM and get him in." Kat says, "animal, vegetable, or mineral?" Max says, "Animal" Kat is lagged Kat says, "oh good" Kat says, "not many of THOSE" Max says, "Smaller than a car." Max says, "Larger than an ant." Max says, "Not horribly uncommon." CharredRose rolls on the floor laughing when he checks in. Max says, "Lol... char thinks we're still arguing. =P" Kat says, "send along then, but we warned, i'm biased towards snakes" Max says, "No .. YOU be warned. Eliminate preconceptions." CharredRose says, "No, I just think you're giving a very... interesting description, Max." Max chuckles. Max says, "You're right. =)" Max says, "Hint: It's black." Fell says, "Let's hit." DeusExMachina concentrates on the image - projecting... Max says, "Okay... I'm sending." Kat says, "warm blooded" Azrhm has reconnected. Max says, "We're sending the animal, Azrhm." Max says, "Shhh!" Azrhm says, "To coin a phrase, doublefuckontoast. I disconnected AGAIN." Max laughs! Max says, "I LOVE that!" DeusExMachina briefly opens an eye - continues concentrating on the image - projecting... Kat says, "furry?" Max says, "yes" Fell says, "Tell us more about the fur." Max says, "I already told her its black." Kat says, "quite coarse, but relatively short" Max says, "She's GOOD." DeusExMachina says, "...more though."" CharredRose nods, impressed Kat says, "about the size of a large dog, perhaps a canine or a big cat?" Max says, "Shall we tell her?" Kat says, "go on" Fell says, "Very good!" DeusExMachina says, "Giver her a bit more." Max says, "A scottie." DeusExMachina says, "Ahhh..." DeusExMachina says, "Ahhh..." Kat says, "what i was abotu to say..." Kat says, "was did you have a dog, max" Max says, "Oh... I thought she meant "go on and tell me". =( Sorry." Kat says, "no prob" DeusExMachina says, "Too bad - the other fine details you selected were good ones, Max." Max says, "Yeah... actually the idea came from seeing my dog walk by the door of my room. =)" DeusExMachina finishes perusing the Liber AETHERICS. Azrhm has disconnected. Max says, "Most impressive." Azrhm has connected. Max says, "Doublefuckontoast?" Azrhm nods CharredRose says, "I'm back." Azrhm says, "Triple" DeusExMachina says, "What up with Azrhm? Connection problems maximus, eh?" Azrhm says, "Worse than usual, and i've just stolen a new modem> :-/" Max says, "I was barking my head off at Kat from over here. =P" DeusExMachina says, "PissShit&Corruption, Azrhm." DeusExMachina chuckles. Max says, "Kat has asked me to tell you that she's lost her connection and can't reconnect." Max says, "So she'll be off for a while." CharredRose says, "All right. Talkin to her right now." DeusExMachina says, "Bummer-drag." Fell says, "Thanks guys, it's been fun, and informative. But now I must lay the carabou to rest, seeing as I'm at work at 7.30. Will someone log all this and mail me it for the site?" Max says, "Still logging. 3 hours and counting. =)" CharredRose says, "All right, see you later, Fell." Max says, "Er.. two" Max waves. DeusExMachina says, "See ya, Fell." Max says, "Bye Fell." DeusExMachina says, "So Max.... " Max says, "What was it you wanted, Deus?" DeusExMachina says, "Ah." DeusExMachina says, "I was wondering how familiar you were with Enochian magic?" Max says, "Not at all. =) I don't take much stock in systems of magick which are tied to religion." DeusExMachina chuckles. DeusExMachina says, "Ah, yes, the battle-cry of the agnostic chaote - I'd forgotten." CharredRose grins Max says, "Heh. I believe in all gods. I worship none. Simple as that." DeusExMachina says, "Well, exactly." DeusExMachina says, "My point was that Dee's aetheryic model is a fairly useful astral map..." DeusExMachina says, "... and dovetails surprisingly well with Carrol's stuff." Max says, "Really? Do tell." DeusExMachina says, "Well, it's much the same model, really, isn't it?" DeusExMachina says, "A sort of 'nested' series of astral space defined by differing levels of density/vibrational rate." Max says, "I thought for a moment we were talking about entirely different things unless there's more to Enochian (and I suspect there is) than I know about." Max says, "Ah..."sa No. Max says, "No." DeusExMachina says, "Sorry?" Max says, "By aetherics I'm referring to energy manipulation." Max says, "As was Carroll." DeusExMachina says, "Yes, I know." Max says, "That entire essay refers to the material plane." DeusExMachina says, "What, in your model, is the source of these energies you describe?" Max says, "Damned if I know. =P We're here to discuss our different views of different aspects and models of aetherics." DeusExMachina thought he was doing that. DeusExMachina smiles. Max says, "To me the source is belief. But to others it is chi, kundalini, oneself, the force (i.e. all living things <G>), etc." Max says, "Well as I understand it Dee's work refers to the Astral plane, and whatnot. Am I incorrect?" DeusExMachina says, "Strictly speaking, no. But the energies of Dee's aethyrs can be used for practical magical workings..." Max says, "Well I'd be interested to hear about that." DeusExMachina says, "...thus bringing into the material plane an energy that is sort-of 'pre-filtered' to meet the specific demands of the ritual at hand." Max says, "I see... so one would "channel" energy from a specific aether which corresponds to the working at hand?" DeusExMachina says, "That was the similarity that I was seeing between the two models. What I was wondering was, does Carrol's model provide any sort of 'astral road map' to match his energy definitions." DeusExMachina says, "And to your question, Max - yes, exactly." Max says, "That's interesting.. could be very useful."DeusExMachina nods. DeusExMachina says, "'Sphere of Correspondence' magick." Max says, "No he doesn't. His model is simply that everyone's got a big ball of aetheric goo in their abdomens which can be manipulated to affect reality. The way I take it -- it is simply a case of as above, so below. As a sigil is symbolic of a desire, so is the aether/chi/etc. representative of reality." Max says, "In other words it is simply a tool which makes it easier to control our will." Max says, "Our will could also be done unaided, if we were well-trained." DeusExMachina nods, contemplative. DeusExMachina says, "I guess I need to give the Carrol titles in my library a re-read." Max says, "I'm not sure if that's clear but I illustrated it in a clearer manner somewhere at the beginning of this whole discussion. When I save the logs and edit them, you'll get a copy from the Z-list." Max says, "Yes... I've had to read Liber Null two or three times. The aetherics section also correlates largely with the section near the end entitled "Anecdotes"" Max says, "That would be at the end of Psychonaut, incidentally." DeusExMachina says, "Cool. Thanks." Max says, "So does anyone have any questions/information to add/points of interest to bring up before we finish up for this session?" DeusExMachina says, "I'm just sorry I arrived so late!" Max says, "Heh. That's alright. I'll fix you up with a transcript soon enough." Max says, "Well since it doesn't seem that anyone has any more to add, I'll just say thank you for attending, check out Damascus -- take a look around. Stay a while. Lots of chaotes frequent this MUSH and you can chat with them as well as attend other discussions, online rituals, and games."